[pandorabots-general] Bot Hosting

Noel Bush noel at aitools.org
Wed Jan 17 18:51:20 PST 2007 

Yes it is.  I've taken some steps toward implementing this type of thing 
in Program D, but wasn't aware that you'd gone down this road as well. 
I will have to take a look at your approach.

Noel

mehri wrote:
> Thanks for the info Gary.
> 
> That's a very interesting and clever concept indeed of
> using SQL for the graphmaster algorithm.
> 
> 
> --- Gary Dubuque <gdubuque at scattercreek.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Mehri,
>>
>> It uses the graphmaster algorithm only the nodes are
>> records in a database
>> instead of memory blocks.  You use a select
>> statement in a stored procedure
>> at each node to get the matches just like you would
>> use iterators or hashes
>> in memory.  Since the technique is stored
>> procedures, the indexing is not
>> too much different than scanning in-memory objects
>> (only much faster).
>> Actually the tables are probably in memory most of
>> the time in the SQL
>> server, but it has a powerful mechanism to manage
>> such things.  This beats
>> trying to do it yourself programmically paging in
>> and out bots as they are
>> needed.
>>
>> Your problem might be that you are trying to get the
>> whole process into one
>> SQL statement.  In reality it is more like
>> word-by-word.  When patterns are
>> not very long, the number of actual words compared
>> is small.  So you might
>> perform maybe ten SQL statements on the average.
>>
>> I have only a small computer running the demo and it
>> swamps out easily.  So
>> be patient if you are trying to explore this using
>> that resource.  As I've
>> said, the method is scaleable through a web farm and
>> clustered servers.  My
>> $400 dollar PC and slow internet connection still
>> can handle a couple of
>> conversation at a time.  A real server and database
>> on separate machines
>> would fair much better.
>>
>> BTW, I think, if I remember right, the example code
>> has the first draft of
>> dynamic contexts which extend the power of <that>
>> and <topic> to as many
>> contexts as you might wish.  The AIMLpad desktop has
>> the contexts refined to
>> a stable extension.  Of course, contexts are just a
>> short cut which standard
>> AIML can do without.
>>
>> HTH,
>>   Gary Dubuque, playing music all day while my
>> website is overwhelmed
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:
>>
> pandorabots-general-bounces+gdubuque=scattercreek.com at list.pandorabots.c
>> om
>>
> [mailto:pandorabots-general-bounces+gdubuque=scattercreek.com at list.pando
>> rabots.com]On Behalf Of mehri
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 1:29 PM
>> To: pandorabots-general at list.pandorabots.com
>> Subject: Re: [pandorabots-general] Bot Hosting
>>
>>
>>> This memory restriction really depends upon the
>> type
>>> of interpreter you use.
>>> Not all bot hosts load the AIML into memory.
>> True not all load the AIML entirely into memory at
>> any
>> given time.
>>
>> But an interpreter has to at least load part of the
>> AIML into memory to be able to get a response.  It
>> can't just entirely execute an SQL statement to get
>> a
>> response.
>>
>> Unless I missed out on someone being able to
>> translate
>> the pattern matching algorithm of AIML purely into
>> SQL
>> statements and a database schema without having to
>> use
>> a Graphmaster algorithm.
>>
> http://www.alicebot.org/TR/2001/WD-aiml/#section-pattern-expression-matching
>> -behavior
>>
>> --- Gary Dubuque <gdubuque at scattercreek.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> This memory restriction really depends upon the
>> type
>>> of interpreter you use.
>>> Not all bot hosts load the AIML into memory.  The
>>> www.AIMLpad.com site has
>>> an ASP.NET version that uses the MS SQL database
>> for
>>> storing the AIML sets.
>>> It can be modified for multiple bots since the
>>> database design is structured
>>> for more than one bot.  If you go into the AIMLpad
>>> community area of the
>>> site given above, you can try the software as it
>> is
>>> incorporated into an
>>> existing web site structure (that is, the
>> microsoft
>>> quick start for a
>>> community site.)  This design could scale to any
>>> number of bots and any
>>> number of concurrent users.  The code is basically
>> a
>>> demo of what is
>>> possible, but it is available for download for
>> free
>>> on the AIMLpad home
>>> page. The drawback is finding a host that has a
>>> database server available.
>>> The design could be ported to MySQL and Python or
>>> PHP or whatever with some
>>> work.  So if you are brave enough to do the
>>> programming, anything is
>>> possible!
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>>   Gary Dubuque, synthesizing music instead of
>>> people...
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From:
>>>
> pandorabots-general-bounces+gdubuque=scattercreek.com at list.pandorabots.c
>>> om
>>>
> [mailto:pandorabots-general-bounces+gdubuque=scattercreek.com at list.pando
>>> rabots.com]On Behalf Of mehri
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 8:35 AM
>>> To: pandorabots-general at list.pandorabots.com
>>> Subject: Re: [pandorabots-general] Bot Hosting
>>>
>>>
>>>> but I wouldn't expect to ever have more than
>> about
>>>> 20-50 bots at any
>>>> given time if even that many.
>>> That's actually a considerable amount.
>>>
>>> But don't think about it in terms of how many
>> total
>>> bots you will have.  Think about it in terms of
>> how
>>> many "active" bots you are going to have at any
>>> given
>>> one time.  Active meaning how many bots are you
>>> going
>>> to have loaded into memory so they are chating
>>> simutaneously.  After a time out period of
>>> inactivity
>>> you can always unload the bots.
>>>
>>>> really having a small site built on a shared
>>> server
>>>> where I have
>>>> unlimited space.
>>> I don't think HD space is going to be the bottle
>>> neck
>>> but rather memory on the server.  How much are you
>>> allowed?
>>>
>>> To have even 6 bots loaded into memory all with
>>> unique
>>> distinct categories the size of Annotated Alice
>>> could
>>> require more that a gig of RAM with most
>>> interpreters.
>>>
>>>> Some friends and I have a goal of creating bots
>>> for
>>>> use as fantasy
>>>> role playing characters, which is why we wanted
>> to
>>>> make a bot building
>>>> community outside of the Pandora environment.
>>> Why outside of Pandora though?  You can always
>>> access
>>> your bots using Pandora's XML-RPC.  Pandora's
>> uptime
>>> is pretty outstanding to say the least too.
>>>
>>> --- Dekadens <dekadens at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thank you all so much for your input. I think I
>>> need
>>>> to clarify better
>>>> what I had in mind.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't really plan on having anything as grand
>>> or
>>>> elaborate as the
>>>> Pandora site. I don't even have my own server.
>>> What
>>>> I had in mind was
>>>> really having a small site built on a shared
>>> server
>>>> where I have
>>>> unlimited space. I'm a member of a small web
>>>> community, and I was
>>>> thinking of making a place where I could host my
>>> own
>>>> bot, as well as
>>>> giving the opportunity for some friends to
>> create
>>>> and host their own,
>>>> but I wouldn't expect to ever have more than
>> about
>>>> 20-50 bots at any
>>>> given time if even that many.
>>>>
>>>> Some friends and I have a goal of creating bots
>>> for
>>>> use as fantasy
>>>> role playing characters, which is why we wanted
>> to
>>>> make a bot building
>>>> community outside of the Pandora environment.
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