[pandorabots-general] Bot Hosting

Tue Jan 16 22:54:31 PST 2007

Thanks for the info Gary.

That's a very interesting and clever concept indeed of
using SQL for the graphmaster algorithm.

--- Gary Dubuque <gdubuque at scattercreek.com> wrote:

> Hi Mehri,
> 
> It uses the graphmaster algorithm only the nodes are
> records in a database
> instead of memory blocks.  You use a select
> statement in a stored procedure
> at each node to get the matches just like you would
> use iterators or hashes
> in memory.  Since the technique is stored
> procedures, the indexing is not
> too much different than scanning in-memory objects
> (only much faster).
> Actually the tables are probably in memory most of
> the time in the SQL
> server, but it has a powerful mechanism to manage
> such things.  This beats
> trying to do it yourself programmically paging in
> and out bots as they are
> needed.
> 
> Your problem might be that you are trying to get the
> whole process into one
> SQL statement.  In reality it is more like
> word-by-word.  When patterns are
> not very long, the number of actual words compared
> is small.  So you might
> perform maybe ten SQL statements on the average.
> 
> I have only a small computer running the demo and it
> swamps out easily.  So
> be patient if you are trying to explore this using
> that resource.  As I've
> said, the method is scaleable through a web farm and
> clustered servers.  My
> $400 dollar PC and slow internet connection still
> can handle a couple of
> conversation at a time.  A real server and database
> on separate machines
> would fair much better.
> 
> BTW, I think, if I remember right, the example code
> has the first draft of
> dynamic contexts which extend the power of <that>
> and <topic> to as many
> contexts as you might wish.  The AIMLpad desktop has
> the contexts refined to
> a stable extension.  Of course, contexts are just a
> short cut which standard
> AIML can do without.
> 
> HTH,
>   Gary Dubuque, playing music all day while my
> website is overwhelmed
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
>
pandorabots-general-bounces+gdubuque=scattercreek.com at list.pandorabots.c
> om
>
[mailto:pandorabots-general-bounces+gdubuque=scattercreek.com at list.pando
> rabots.com]On Behalf Of mehri
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 1:29 PM
> To: pandorabots-general at list.pandorabots.com
> Subject: Re: [pandorabots-general] Bot Hosting
> 
> 
> > This memory restriction really depends upon the
> type
> > of interpreter you use.
> > Not all bot hosts load the AIML into memory.
> 
> True not all load the AIML entirely into memory at
> any
> given time.
> 
> But an interpreter has to at least load part of the
> AIML into memory to be able to get a response.  It
> can't just entirely execute an SQL statement to get
> a
> response.
> 
> Unless I missed out on someone being able to
> translate
> the pattern matching algorithm of AIML purely into
> SQL
> statements and a database schema without having to
> use
> a Graphmaster algorithm.
>
http://www.alicebot.org/TR/2001/WD-aiml/#section-pattern-expression-matching
> -behavior
> 
> --- Gary Dubuque <gdubuque at scattercreek.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > This memory restriction really depends upon the
> type
> > of interpreter you use.
> > Not all bot hosts load the AIML into memory.  The
> > www.AIMLpad.com site has
> > an ASP.NET version that uses the MS SQL database
> for
> > storing the AIML sets.
> > It can be modified for multiple bots since the
> > database design is structured
> > for more than one bot.  If you go into the AIMLpad
> > community area of the
> > site given above, you can try the software as it
> is
> > incorporated into an
> > existing web site structure (that is, the
> microsoft
> > quick start for a
> > community site.)  This design could scale to any
> > number of bots and any
> > number of concurrent users.  The code is basically
> a
> > demo of what is
> > possible, but it is available for download for
> free
> > on the AIMLpad home
> > page. The drawback is finding a host that has a
> > database server available.
> > The design could be ported to MySQL and Python or
> > PHP or whatever with some
> > work.  So if you are brave enough to do the
> > programming, anything is
> > possible!
> >
> > HTH,
> >   Gary Dubuque, synthesizing music instead of
> > people...
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> >
>
pandorabots-general-bounces+gdubuque=scattercreek.com at list.pandorabots.c
> > om
> >
>
[mailto:pandorabots-general-bounces+gdubuque=scattercreek.com at list.pando
> > rabots.com]On Behalf Of mehri
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 8:35 AM
> > To: pandorabots-general at list.pandorabots.com
> > Subject: Re: [pandorabots-general] Bot Hosting
> >
> >
> > > but I wouldn't expect to ever have more than
> about
> > > 20-50 bots at any
> > > given time if even that many.
> >
> > That's actually a considerable amount.
> >
> > But don't think about it in terms of how many
> total
> > bots you will have.  Think about it in terms of
> how
> > many "active" bots you are going to have at any
> > given
> > one time.  Active meaning how many bots are you
> > going
> > to have loaded into memory so they are chating
> > simutaneously.  After a time out period of
> > inactivity
> > you can always unload the bots.
> >
> > > really having a small site built on a shared
> > server
> > > where I have
> > > unlimited space.
> >
> > I don't think HD space is going to be the bottle
> > neck
> > but rather memory on the server.  How much are you
> > allowed?
> >
> > To have even 6 bots loaded into memory all with
> > unique
> > distinct categories the size of Annotated Alice
> > could
> > require more that a gig of RAM with most
> > interpreters.
> >
> > > Some friends and I have a goal of creating bots
> > for
> > > use as fantasy
> > > role playing characters, which is why we wanted
> to
> > > make a bot building
> > > community outside of the Pandora environment.
> >
> > Why outside of Pandora though?  You can always
> > access
> > your bots using Pandora's XML-RPC.  Pandora's
> uptime
> > is pretty outstanding to say the least too.
> >
> > --- Dekadens <dekadens at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Thank you all so much for your input. I think I
> > need
> > > to clarify better
> > > what I had in mind.
> > >
> > > I didn't really plan on having anything as grand
> > or
> > > elaborate as the
> > > Pandora site. I don't even have my own server.
> > What
> > > I had in mind was
> > > really having a small site built on a shared
> > server
> > > where I have
> > > unlimited space. I'm a member of a small web
> > > community, and I was
> > > thinking of making a place where I could host my
> > own
> > > bot, as well as
> > > giving the opportunity for some friends to
> create
> > > and host their own,
> > > but I wouldn't expect to ever have more than
> about
> > > 20-50 bots at any
> > > given time if even that many.
> > >
> > > Some friends and I have a goal of creating bots
> > for
> > > use as fantasy
> > > role playing characters, which is why we wanted
> to
> > > make a bot building
> > > community outside of the Pandora environment.
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