[pandorabots-general] Forum to advance the science of AI (including the resumption of standard setting activities)

[Princess Artemis]

I suppose it is nice to see competing views etc. on this list, to an 
extent...

I am but a lowly hobbiest, someone who makes Pandorabots to entertain 
her friends (and we get no end of entertainment from them), but I think 
I do have something to say about this particular exchange.  It's 
netiquette after all.  There's no need to get personal.  I don't think 
it's fair to inform anyone of Mr. Bush possibly beening hospitalized for 
mental problems on a mailing list, nor do I think it's fair to accuse 
Dr. Wallace of some species of tax fraud on a mailing list.

Can we get back to discussing Pandorabots and AIML and such-like without 
all the dirty laundry?

Princess Artemis, probably overstepping her bounds.

Dr. Rich Wallace wrote:
> It's nice that Pandorabots has not censored Noel Bush or anyone else from
> expressing freely their opinions about the ALICE AI Foundation, nor from
> promoting his own competitive products, on mailing lists paid for by the
> Founadtion and Pandorabots.  One wonders if such free expression is
> allowed on the Program D mailing lists.
> 
> The fact is, the Federal 501(c)(3) application which Noel Bush helped
> submit, was turned down by the IRS.   We never achieved that status.  The
> AI Foundation is a California nonprofit corporation, but not a Federal
> 501(c)(3), nor have we ever mispreprented ourselves as such, nor have we
> ever claimed that any donations or purchases made from the Foundation are
> tax deductible.   There are however many businesses which are
> not-for-profit but not 501(c)(3) charitable organizations.  We are not
> violating any laws.
> 
> We have however been repeatedly accused by Noel Bush and his wife Nika of
> tax evasaion and fraud, using the link to the CA Sec'y of State posted
> here as their only evidence.   Whatever the problem was with this
> registration form, arose from the original board not doing their fiduciary
> duties in the first place, and leaving me to clean up a mess of taxes,
> business forms, essentially learning how to run a business properly after
> the "boardroom coup" of 2002.   We are working If they or anyone want to
> back up these claims, they are welcome to take them to court, which the
> proper forum, not pandorabots-general.
> 
> Now, when Noel says "the Board of Trustees at the time" he is really
> talking about himself and his wife, and two other people who they put
> under a lot of pressure, and myself.  One of them later wrote to me and
> apologized, explained to me that Noel was harassing her, calling her up at
> all hours, when she was trying to deal with other matters in her personal
> life, until she finally "caved."  After that, she never heard from Noel
> again.
> 
> It was obvious that allowing Noel and his wife Nika 2 seats on the Board
> made them a voting block, and if I learned anything from that experience,
> it would be never, never give a husband-and-wife team 2 seats on a
> corporate Board, because it is a recipe for conflict of interest.
> 
> My problems are an open book.  But how many people know Noel himself has
> been hospitalized for delusional behavior?  If you want to look for a
> troubled history, look no further than Noel Bush.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>Brian,
>>
>>Will you be helping the foundation restore its status as a non-profit?
>>It has been listed as "suspended" by the California Secretary of State
>>for a very long time:
>>
>>http://kepler.ss.ca.gov/corpdata/ShowAllList?QueryCorpNumber=C2342616
>>
>>Aren't there likely to be problems related to working with an
>>organization that hasn't maintained compliance?  Are contributions to a
>>suspended 501(c)(3) organization still tax deductible, for instance?
>>And if there's any business relationship between a commercial entity and
>>a principal in the foundation (not saying there is in your case),
>>doesn't that pose some potential conflict of interest issues that can
>>only be exacerbated by the organization being in a "suspended" status?
>>
>>Personally I felt that the "ALICE AI Foundation" became problematic
>>several years ago when its founder began actively directing business to
>>a commercial interest (Franz Inc / Pandorabots), against the wishes of
>>the board of trustees at that time.  I also came to the conclusion that
>>the founder's primary aim for the organization was to support himself
>>personally -- a laudable goal, for sure, but not one that would (from my
>>non-professional understanding) fit the meaning of "charity" that the
>>501(c)(3) designation was intended for (though I may be totally wrong
>>about this).  Good grief -- most developers who want to ask for money
>>just put a Paypal "tip jar" out there.
>>
>>I think you just might want to be careful about tying up too closely
>>with an organization that may not have all its ducks in a row.  It
>>sounds great to start up some kind of process to move AIML along again
>>(and I think that xAIML will be very complementary in that regard -- see
>>my post to the pandorabots list about this).  But it might be smarter to
>>start it up under different auspices -- start from a fresh slate, so to
>>speak.  The "ALICE Foundation" and all of its baggage could end up
>>dragging down an enthusiastic and energetic effort, with lots of
>>completely irrelevant matters like this.
>>
>>AIML can advance, complementary technologies can flourish, interpreters
>>can proliferate, and botmasters can build more and better bots, all
>>without the ALICE AI Foundation.  The vision, of course, was different
>>at one time, and likely there still is a useful function that could be
>>performed by some such organization.  But one with a history as troubled
>>as this one is probably best to be careful about, at the very least.
>>
>>Noel