[pandorabots-general] Newbie Problem

Noel Bush noel at aitools.org
Thu May 18 07:38:17 PDT 2006 

Thanks, Brian.  I really do think your project is interesting, and I 
hope that your efforts--both commercial and otherwise--will produce 
results, but personally I just can't participate now.  I already have a 
heaping plate of work in front of me, and I also must agree with others 
who have expressed misgivings about donating time and ideas to a 
non-free (non - open source) commercial project.

Brian Hoecht wrote:
> Noel,
> 
> That is a great response, very well thought out and quite
> thought-provoking.
> 
> I would again like to extend the offer to have you join the panel
> (see email floating around this list right now).  You have much
> to offer and the panel will be the poorer without you.
> 
> I've also cc'd a few of the other creators of the other
> Interpreters on this email.  I'm interested in their opinions on
> this topic and what they think about how best to proceed.
> 
> I do know that I am way over my head technologically... but that
> is not what I do... and why we are assembling a forum.
> Facilitating constructive discussion, collaboration and
> advancement of applied technology... now that I know.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> pandorabots-general-bounces+brian_hoecht=msn.com at list.pandorabots
> com
> [mailto:pandorabots-general-bounces+brian_hoecht=msn.com at list.pan
> dorabots.com] On Behalf Of Noel Bush
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 9:32 AM
> To: pandorabots-general at list.pandorabots.com; xaiml at aitools.org
> Subject: Re: [pandorabots-general] Newbie Problem
> 
> It is not accurate to say that xAIML is a competitor to AIML.  In
> fact, 
> it's quite the opposite: xAIML implicitly asserts that there is
> *no 
> point* in "competing" with AIML -- if you are going to use a 
> pattern-matching oriented, stimulus-response sort of approach,
> then it 
> is much wiser to use AIML as a basis than to go off and try to
> reinvent 
> the wheel for the hundredth time.
> 
> Remember that xAIML is *not* an alternative to AIML -- xAIML is
> not 
> "another language" or "another standard".  This is true of xAIML
> to AIML 
> far much moreso than it is true of XHTML to HTML, for instance.
> 
> xAIML is, in fact, a wholehearted embrace of the "embrace and
> extend" 
> attitude.  xAIML just offers a way for people to describe and
> share 
> their embracings and extensions in a slightly more formal and
> useful 
> way.  At present, if some AIML interpreter includes an additional
> 
> feature, or does not implement a core AIML element, or implements
> an 
> AIML element differently from other interpreters, you just have
> to hope 
> that the documentation tells you so.  But in this case the notion
> of 
> "what AIML is" gets a little fuzzy, since, for instance, "what
> AIML is 
> to Pandorabots" may be different from "what AIML is to
> RebeccaAIML".
> 
> xAIML is a way for each interpreter to specify precisely how it
> matches 
> up with the base AIML functionality set.  The idea is that you
> can tell 
> "at a glance" whether a given interpreter has the functionality
> you're 
> looking for, and whether it will be able to use your (x)AIML set,
> and if 
> not, why.
> 
> At the same time, developers of "xAIML interpreters" can feel
> freer in 
> implementing extended functionality sets, or even altering some
> basic 
> AIML functionality, without a fear of falling out of the "circle
> of 
> trust" that a standard like AIML provides.  That circle of trust
> is 
> extremely useful, but it should not be a hindrance.  So xAIML
> provides a 
> suggested path for developers to follow in pursuing innovation
> while 
> retaining "measurable compatibility".
> 
> Brian's message brings up an important category of extensions to
> or 
> variations on AIML.  There are many "macro extensions" that
> people would 
> like to use in AIML, that can be implemented purely as
> transformations 
> from some alternate markup to AIML, via XSLT.  For instance, 
> "implementing" a <sr2/> element would be as simple as:
> 
> <xsl:template match="sr2">
>    <xsl:element name="srai">
>      <xsl:element name="star">
>        <xsl:attribute name="index">2</xsl:attribute>
>      </xsl:element>
>    </xsl:element>
> </xsl:template>
> 
> Now, if you have an interpreter that will recognize an XSL
> stylesheet 
> directive at the top of your document, and will apply the
> designated 
> stylesheet to the document before loading it, you have the means
> for 
> creating your own "dialect" that can vary considerably from
> "orthodox" AIML.
> 
> But now that you've got your own dialect, what to do with it?
> You still 
> want to be able to validate it, like you can validate AIML.
> There are 
> so many pieces of software out there -- free and commercial --
> that 
> allow you to validate AIML against a schema...even while you are
> typing 
> it, so you never need worry about submitting invalid AIML to your
> 
> interpreter.  But when you've written your own dialect, you also
> want 
> this same ability.  So you could just write your own schema --
> copy the 
> existing AIML schema and make your changes, for instance.  (Or
> write 
> your own schema.)  But then you'd be firmly "out of the circle",
> because 
> your dialect would no longer be "true AIML".  What to do?
> 
> The answer (I think) is xAIML, because it provides a structured
> means 
> for expressing the relationship of your derived dialect to its
> parent, 
> and offers a kind of "schema diff" functionality that should make
> it 
> easier to customize a schema for your own needs.  If you have an 
> xAIML-Spec for your dialect, then when you feed it to an xAIML 
> interpreter, that interpreter will know how to handle it.
> 
> And I think that the specific matter of "macro extensions" -- all
> those 
> extensions that can be handled with XSLT -- suggests that there
> should 
> be a certain level of xAIML interpreter which consists of nothing
> more 
> than the ability to apply a designated stylesheet to an input
> document. 
>   It would make a lot of sense to have a designation of
> "pure-transform" 
> or something like that as an available attribute on an xAIML spec
> element.
> 
> Noel
> 
> Dr. Rich Wallace wrote:
>> Brian, the simple answer to your question is that there does
> exist a body,
>> the AIML Architecture Committee, to debate, propose and adopt
> changes and
>> additions to the AIML spec.   For various reasons, that
> committee has been
>> dormant since 2002, and the 1.0.1 spec has remained frozen in
> place.  One
>> reason has been that the guy we relied on to write the spec
> (who is not a
>> computer scientist, but a "musician") has decided to compete
> with us
>> rather than cooperate, and has now announced his own confusing
> attempt to
>> create an "XAIML" standard right here on this mailing list and
> elsewhere. 
>> I personally don't see any standards efforts moving forward
> until someone
>> starts making more money from AIML applications.  So far the
> various
>> projects have adopted an "embrace and extend" approach, which
> has been
>> fertile ground for innovation.
>>
>> One way to handle a simple macro extension like yours is at the
> authoring
>> level.  You can have the botmaster write <sr2/> but internally
> expand that
>> expression into <srai><star index="2"/></srai> in the AIML
> file.  That way
>> you get the best of both worlds.  "AIML Authoring Tools" has
> been a
>> subject of ongoing discussion for some time.
>>
>> Rich
>>
>>> Below is a category out of the Alice AAA Reducer.aiml file.
>>>
>>> <category>
>>> 	<pattern>_ HOWEVER *</pattern>
>>> 	<template>
>>> 		<srai><star/></srai>
>>> 		<srai><star index="2"/></srai>
>>> 	</template>
>>> </category>
>>>
>>> My question is this...
>>>
>>> If.....  <srai><star/></srai> = <sr/>
>>> Then...  <srai><star index="2"/></srai> = <sr2/>???
>>>
>>> Then this would be oh so much briefer if stated as:
>>>
>>> <category>
>>> 	<pattern>_ HOWEVER *</pattern>
>>> 	<template>
>>> 		<sr/>
>>> 		<sr2/>
>>> 	</template>
>>> </category>
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
> _______________________________________________
> This is the pandorabots-general mailing list
> To Post, reply to pandorabots-general at list.pandorabots.com
> Unsubscribe and change preferences at
> http://list.pandorabots.com/mailman/listinfo/pandorabots-general
> Learn netiquette at http://www.dtcc.edu/cs/rfc1855.html
> Learn to read at http://www.literacy.org/
> _______________________________________________
> This is the pandorabots-general mailing list
> To Post, reply to pandorabots-general at list.pandorabots.com
> Unsubscribe and change preferences at http://list.pandorabots.com/mailman/listinfo/pandorabots-general
> Learn netiquette at http://www.dtcc.edu/cs/rfc1855.html
> Learn to read at http://www.literacy.org/

More information about the pandorabots-general mailing list