[pandorabots-general] Forum to advance the science of AI
(including the resumption of standard setting activities)
Noel Bush
noel at aitools.org
Thu May 18 07:10:35 PDT 2006
Brian,
Will you be helping the foundation restore its status as a non-profit?
It has been listed as "suspended" by the California Secretary of State
for a very long time:
http://kepler.ss.ca.gov/corpdata/ShowAllList?QueryCorpNumber=C2342616
Aren't there likely to be problems related to working with an
organization that hasn't maintained compliance? Are contributions to a
suspended 501(c)(3) organization still tax deductible, for instance?
And if there's any business relationship between a commercial entity and
a principal in the foundation (not saying there is in your case),
doesn't that pose some potential conflict of interest issues that can
only be exacerbated by the organization being in a "suspended" status?
Personally I felt that the "ALICE AI Foundation" became problematic
several years ago when its founder began actively directing business to
a commercial interest (Franz Inc / Pandorabots), against the wishes of
the board of trustees at that time. I also came to the conclusion that
the founder's primary aim for the organization was to support himself
personally -- a laudable goal, for sure, but not one that would (from my
non-professional understanding) fit the meaning of "charity" that the
501(c)(3) designation was intended for (though I may be totally wrong
about this). Good grief -- most developers who want to ask for money
just put a Paypal "tip jar" out there.
I think you just might want to be careful about tying up too closely
with an organization that may not have all its ducks in a row. It
sounds great to start up some kind of process to move AIML along again
(and I think that xAIML will be very complementary in that regard -- see
my post to the pandorabots list about this). But it might be smarter to
start it up under different auspices -- start from a fresh slate, so to
speak. The "ALICE Foundation" and all of its baggage could end up
dragging down an enthusiastic and energetic effort, with lots of
completely irrelevant matters like this.
AIML can advance, complementary technologies can flourish, interpreters
can proliferate, and botmasters can build more and better bots, all
without the ALICE AI Foundation. The vision, of course, was different
at one time, and likely there still is a useful function that could be
performed by some such organization. But one with a history as troubled
as this one is probably best to be careful about, at the very least.
Noel
Brian Hoecht wrote:
> I don't think it is any secret to this group that the AI Foundation is
> putting together a panel to fire back up the standard setting process
> and general advancement of the science of AI.
>
>
>
> The call to action to join the panel/forum has been received mostly as
> requests for beta access to the AIML Editor. The Editor is only the
> means to the end… or a perk if you will for the volunteers.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, I think the more important message was missed. The goal
> is, was and remains the advancement of the science of AI - through the
> Foundation and on a basis committed to its goals and for the benefit of all.
>
>
>
> Here is the call again if you missed it:
>
>
>
> "If you are highly skilled and experienced in AI, your foundation needs
> you. Technology and general computer capabilities have kept expanding
> since 2002. The AIML standards have not kept up. Progress will not
> happen on its own (translation: Dr. Wallace has a day job), so if you
> have passion, energy and time that you can commit, we are creating the
> forum for you to help... and yes, panel/forum members get access to the
> beta release of the new AIML Editor."
>
>
>
> And yes, we are trying to find a way to give access to the consumer
> version to everyone who wants a copy, but no it is NOT open source nor
> will it be (but it will produce standard compliant AIML files as its
> output and no there is no hidden magic to it beyond it being more
> efficient than WordPad - multiple *.aiml file manipulation, GUI, sort,
> relate, test, view, etc.). And yes it is a beta release. Please be
> patient. We'll solve this as the panel gets going in a fair and
> transparent manner that is true to the mission statement of the Foundation.
>
>
>
> So… we are looking for skilled, passionate volunteers. Should you
> choose to accept this exciting mission here is what you can expect to
> get to lead:
>
>
>
> 1) a revamping of the ALICE AAA data set to make the creation of new or
> derivative synthetic personalities more efficient and easier
>
> 2) defining AIML coding best practices then cleaning up the ALICE AAA
> data set for them
>
> 3) Several how to's for:
>
> a) Embedded javascript
>
> b) Embedded avatar controls
>
> c) Embedded emotive TTS
>
> d) System tags
>
> e) Website + application/db interoperability
>
> 4) Resumption of standard setting activities
>
> 4) Others... (Who knows what the top minds in the field will come up with)?
>
>
>
> As with the Editor, we are doing these at Ai-Dealer, but don't want to
> float out to sea on our own. It is why I approached Dr. Wallace about
> the need to fire back up the activities of the Foundation and to advance
> the science. It is why I've offered free access to the beta version of
> the Editor’s consumer version to the panel for those contributing their
> time and effort.
>
>
>
> And to clear up another point, yes there is a corporate version of the
> AIML Editor available for a modest fee to anyone looking to implement an
> AI project wanting media exposure via the panel. We are doing this
> because we want to help bring business community credibility to the
> field of applied AI. The fee is to help us enhance it in support of how
> you are going to use it. Members in this group need not contribute
> their time to the efforts of the volunteer group, saving their time for
> their own execution. The corporate version includes the items listed
> under 3a-e above, the consumer version does not.
>
>
>
> As to the xAIML effort, the idea of needing to expand the capabilities
> of AIML is correct, I just don’t think it should be done in isolation by
> one of the AIML Interpreters. That said, I do like the notion of <spell
> check> tags and some of the other ideas... but they need the peer
> review, discussion, agreement and planned release via the standard
> setting organization.
>
>
>
> As a final note, here is an interesting bit of trivia for the AI
> community. I grew up in automotive retailing circles and understand the
> importance of standards. Did you know that in most car dealer
> accounting systems, there are more lines of code dedicated to
> integration with the various OEM's than there is for the complete
> accounting, sales, service and parts applications? And there are only
> about 20 OEM's. This happened because each OEM built their own spec for
> simple things like warranty claims, financial statements, vehicle
> invoices, parts orders, etc. It took close to a decade to get standards
> established then implemented, but this organization (see link below) is
> becoming the dominant force in the industry and is enabling more,
> better, cheaper and faster integration than the dealers have ever seen
> before.
>
>
>
> www.starstandards.org <http://www.starstandards.org/>
>
>
>
> So... cynicism aside, having a single inclusive standard is important.
> Let it go and it will take a decade or more to get it back - if ever.
> The AI movement is fortunate to have such standards up front.
>
>
>
> BTW – I noted on the Alice AAA page http://www.alicebot.org/aiml/aaa/
> that the following individuals were the driving force in transforming
> Alice Silver into Alice AAA… some are on our panel/forum… others we have
> not heard from. While we are already at nearly 20 members now it would
> be great to hear from those below whom we have not yet heard. Many
> hands make quick work of the significant task ahead of us. As you know,
> scrubbing Alice even for a single best practice or task is a reasonable
> sized effort.
>
> * Joy Harwood
> * Colin Meldrum
> * Dr. Doubly Aimless
> * Chris Hatcher
> * Gary Dubuque
> * Anne Kootstra
> * Lindsay Davies
> * Stefan Zakarias
> * Tony Sharp
> * John Campbell
> * Steve Worswick
> * Gary Poster
> * Soren Gjellerup Christiansen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From:
> pandorabots-general-bounces+brian_hoecht=msn.com at list.pandorabots.com
> [mailto:pandorabots-general-bounces+brian_hoecht=msn.com at list.pandorabots.com]
> On Behalf Of Dr. Rich Wallace
>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:18 PM
>
> To: pandorabots-general at list.pandorabots.com
>
> Subject: RE: [pandorabots-general] Newbie Problem
>
>
>
> Brian, the simple answer to your question is that there does exist a
> body, the AIML Architecture Committee, to debate, propose and adopt
> changes and additions to the AIML spec. For various reasons, that
> committee has been dormant since 2002, and the 1.0.1 spec has remained
> frozen in place. One reason has been that the guy we relied on to write
> the spec (who is not a computer scientist, but a "musician") has decided
> to compete with us rather than cooperate, and has now announced his own
> confusing attempt to create an "XAIML" standard right here on this
> mailing list and elsewhere. I personally don't see any standards
> efforts moving forward until someone starts making more money from AIML
> applications. So far the various projects have adopted an "embrace and
> extend" approach, which has been fertile ground for innovation.
>
>
>
> One way to handle a simple macro extension like yours is at the
> authoring level. You can have the botmaster write <sr2/> but internally
> expand that expression into <srai><star index="2"/></srai> in the AIML
> file. That way you get the best of both worlds. "AIML Authoring Tools"
> has been a subject of ongoing discussion for some time.
>
>
>
> Rich
>
>
>
>> Below is a category out of the Alice AAA Reducer.aiml file.
>
>>
>
>> <category>
>
>> <pattern>_ HOWEVER *</pattern>
>
>> <template>
>
>> <srai><star/></srai>
>
>> <srai><star index="2"/></srai>
>
>> </template>
>
>> </category>
>
>>
>
>> My question is this...
>
>>
>
>> If..... <srai><star/></srai> = <sr/>
>
>> Then... <srai><star index="2"/></srai> = <sr2/>???
>
>>
>
>> Then this would be oh so much briefer if stated as:
>
>>
>
>> <category>
>
>> <pattern>_ HOWEVER *</pattern>
>
>> <template>
>
>> <sr/>
>
>> <sr2/>
>
>> </template>
>
>> </category>
>
>>
>
>> Thoughts?
>
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>
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>
>
>
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